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Ski Group

http://www.berklix.org/ski/

Index

• Winter & Summer Hikes & & Walks & Cycling trips
• Ski Dates
  • Our Dates
    2010-2011 & onward we're not publishing on web. Join our ski mail list for announcements.
    2009-2010, 2008-2009, 2007-2008, 2006-2007, 2005-2006, 2004-2005, 2003-2004, 2002-2003, 2001-2002, 2000-2001
  • More Dates Welcome
  • Other Group's Dates
• Booking Form
• Kitzbuhel Ski Trip Information
• Mayrhofen Ski Trip Information
• Author and group at Mayrhofen Austria.
• Pics: 2001_01_21, 2003_01_19, 2008_01_20, nordhangbahn.
• Ski Organisers
• People
• Resorts
• Other Trips
• How To Organise A Ski Trip
• Trip Conventions EG Petrol, Credit Cards etc
• Planning Criteria
• Planning Method
• Skiers & Ski Organisers Mailing Lists
• Non Skier's Unsolicited Opinions
• Disclaimer
• Another Group: Ski Tourers : Richard Gipps.
• Another Group: Short Ski Beginners : Ken Lawler.
• Another Group: Munich International Ski Club e.V.
• Another Group: Paraski : HanZi Field.
• Another Group: Nymphenburg Ski Club.
• Another Group: Winter Sport Verein Muenchen e.V.
• Another Group: Skiverband-muenchen.de
• Other Commercial Bus & Train Trips etc
• Latest Stop Press Items (If Any)
• Random Ski Links
• Copyright

More Dates

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Notes On Columns

• Type:
  • Down=Down hill,
  • Tour=Ski Tour,
  • Lang=Langlauf=Cross Country.
  • All=All types of skier welcome.
  • Where more than one type, main emphasis is listed first.
• Skill:
  • Beg=Beginners (ie including absolute beginners),
  • Exp=Experienced.
  • Any=Any level of experience or lack thereof.
• Organiser: Name of organiser. Click on it for more info.
• Destination: Ski Organisers please tell me web references(URL) for your Destination Resort, for Ski Map info etc, & I'll make it click-able from the table.
• Free/ Commercial club trips are organised free (but you still have to pay various lifts & accommodation & petrol etc), but we also list some Semi Commercial Trips: Most of Ken's trips are marked "Semi Commercial". on those the organiser's prime aim is to teach people skiing, for which he offers a commercial package, charges money, & bundles in equipment provision, tuition, accommodation & (I think) lift pass) A few experienced club skiers sometimes join those groups without taking the package.
• Comment: Odd extra info.

Notes On Rows

• A row of dashes '-' (or empty boxes) is a date available for an Ski Organiser (unless below a preceeding multi day trip).
• Trips such as Ken's commercial trips & Peter's Private trip maybe shown in {{brackets}}.

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Other Group's Dates

Our Ski Organisers also have a 2nd mail list just for the Ski Organisers, not for normal skiers who don't organise.

Subscribe Ski Email List(s) here

You might want to also look at Munich Ski Club Web They have an entry fee of 10 Euro, & Annual Membership of 30 Euro (when last I looked) (by contrast: We are Free ! Email

Maybe Munich branch of the Deutsch Alpen- verein might also organise trips. (Use a search engine. & mail me a URL).

Resorts

• Free Austrian Tourism Literature:
  • Tel +49.89.66670100 (09:00-17:00),
  • Fax +49.89.66670200,
  • Answerphone +49.89.66670151 (Mon-Fri 08:00-20:00)
  • Oestereich Information, Postfach 1231, 82019 Taufkirchen bei Muenchen.
• ADAC Snow Report Automatic Key Menu: Tel & Fax 0180.5232221
• austria-tourism.at
• TV 3-Sat "Alpenpanorama": Sat & Sun 08:00-09:00 Weekdays 07:30-09:00
• TV Bayern-3 has some pictures & or teletext too.
• alpspitze.de Cornelia B says top @ 2030, Snow good w/end of 2006_01_06 (seems to be more than one Alpspitz but I guess this right one)
• axamer-lizum.at
• bayrischzell.de
• dammkar.de
• eggental.com
• feldberg24.de
• garmish-partenkirchen.de
• obereggen.com
• obermaiselstein.de
• Weather

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Other Trips

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How To Organise A Ski Trip

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Booking Form

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Ski Trip Conventions EG Petrol etc

• We very rarely go to hotels that accept credit cards - bring Cash ! - All the other passengers in the car haven't got any interest in going to a more expensive hotel or restaurant, & all paying a lot more, just so's you can use your credit card, (even if we could find somewhere to take a card) so Bring Enough Cash.
• Petrol money: we normally aim to fill standard cars with 4 people, & leave the 3 passengers to pay all petrol, leaving driver to incur depreciation (think salt water corrosion & heavy engine wear on mountains etc), that way we help encourage sufficient drivers to suffer the corrosive salted & gritted winter roads, & increased risk of collision etc. If the driver has not bought rack & chains, passengers sometimes deduct the price of a beer from petrol money, & buy a beer over the weekend for the driver who was kind enough to synchronise his vehicle & squeeze their skis onto his rack etc, thus encouraging more drivers to invest in rack & chains.
• We pretty much always stop for a drink after skiing & don't rush off. The drivers don't booze it up though.
• Passengers should synchronise with Drivers travel plans, be back on time from skiing, & not order meals when rest are planning to leave.
• Drivers co-ordinate plans with their fellow drivers.
• Passengers are normally head counted after skiing by their own driver. Drivers make mutual check arrangements among each other. Passengers of a missing /late driver should report the missing skier to other drivers.
• We don't come back early to unlock vehicles for non skiers.
• A meal on the way back to Munich is optional, subject to driver - depends if stomach demanding food to digest, plus aching muscles demanding blood to rebuild, may deprive brain of blood supply to concentrate on driving.
• We probably have other conventions too, which are easier remembered in the snow fields than typing here in Munich

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Ski Season's Planning Criteria

• The annual ski planning meal enables us to optimise/maximise the amount of ski trips available during the ski season. It was started after we had a dry January one year: the snow was good, but we fumbled the planning, & had no down hill weekend for 3 weeks.
• We try to maximise the number of full weekends available but get lower turnout if we have adjacent full weekends, so we try to alternate full weekends & day trips on successive weekends.
• We get fewer weekends if we first ad hoc book the easy to organise single day trips on any random weekend Ski Organisers bid for; so instead it's better to try to schedule the 2 day full weekends trips first, on alternate weekends, & then add the one day trips in between.
• We try when possible to avoid a full weekend on Fasching's party weekend; we often do a one day trip then, Sunday usually.
• The timetable needs to account for Christmas & Easter. EG 1 day trips on weekends when accommodation is hard to find, 2 days (or more) when easy.
• We sometime run 2 trips the same day, EG Langlauf & down hill, but a few Ski Organisers do more than one form of skiing, & don't want to miss out, so sometime we do EG langlauf on Saturday & down hill on Sunday (or vice versa), rather than 2 1 day & none the other day same weekend.
• Langlauf dates: try: Munich International Ski Club
• We usually (but not always) manage to avoid EG a 1 day down hill in one resort on the same weekend a 2 day down hill trip in a different resort.
• There used to be a private trip to France (Peter's), that involves a number of regulars, so it's as well to be aware of private trip dates that may affect numbers on public trips.
• One of our regulars ha a mini bus, takes maybe 6 or 7 roughly. Drink with the winterised beer gardeners, & you may discover who & possibly get offered a trip in the van or a car :-)
• We also arrange small groups not on the official programme, these are often arranged at short notice among the winterised beer gardeners, the stammtisch goers occasionally, & the Skiers List ).
• This Hanenkamm date in 2006 clashed with Mayrhofen trip so might be Traffic jams?.

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Planning Method Only of possible interest to Ski Organisers

• The schedule used to be organised with identical papers with dates in front of each Ski Organiser at the ski planning meal, for bids for dates & then collated, discussed & dates shuffled to optimise use of weekends. As that was best typed, & as we usually know a few requests in advance, it's helpful to list those too, & as the info will be published on web email & printed programme later anyway, it's convenient to list early tentative plans on the web too. Some years Julian just provides a giant sheet, & all trips are marked up, that system works well with smaller numbers, but problems of wet table & dark restaurants. Torch useful ! In 2004 Julian also had a laptop loaded & ready with the planning table, (which would have made inserting extra mid week trips in particular, rather easier, but then paper was used as more easily review-able by all the group (passing a laptop around among glasses of beer, & plates of food is problematic, compared with paper.
• Details can be registered on this list by emailing or phoning Julian.
• These dates are NOT fixed, they're just some initial wishes of some individual Ski Organisers & will likely be changed somewhat when Ski Organisers together at & after the annual Ski Organisers planning meal, when we optimise the season's schedule.
• First Come First Served ? - No It's Not That Simple !
  • It is not necessarily first come first served for this timetable, neither by email bids nor on the planning night.
  • it seems best to optimise the ski timetable to maximise ski enjoyment & safety etc, for the skiers, not simply to satisfy whichever Ski Organiser managed to bid first by email, or managed to arrive on time for the ski meal.
  • Full weekend ski trips in prime snow time (Jan to mid/late Feb) are considered valuable, not to be messed up by less than experienced Ski Organisers, so it's appreciated if newer Ski Organisers to the group first do one day trips, & smaller 2 day trips out of prime time, until they've shown the group they have the proven organisational ability to extend to reliably & successfully organise large groups in prime snow time. (There's a lot to get right, or wrong, in a full weekend, & only a few optimal dates in a short season, so we can't afford to waste any).
  • "First come" might (or might not) be OK for langlauf, which generally is low death/serious injury risk compared to down hill or ski tour.
  • When you get to be standing on a steep mountain, perhaps teaching down hill beginners how to crash properly & avoid broken arm/legs etc, or teaching tourer-s avalanche danger assessment etc, then competence is more important than who made first claim.
  • There's other criteria, equally doubtless skiers will think of & understand them better than non skiers, & be more affected by the decisions than non skiers, so such decisions are best left to skiers !
• It's optimal if we first try to work out from other constraints, which weekends are best for 1 or 2 day trips, then Ski Organisers choose dates available ?
• Like to do a trip yourself? - Pick a free date above & get advice from other Ski Organisers.
• Date Arbitration/decision etc is by the body of Ski Organisers.

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Skiers & Ski Organisers Mailing Lists

• Skiers & Ski Organisers each have a mailing list. Ski Organisers are also members of the bigger skiers list. You are welcome to join either or both lists. Skiers List berklix.org or Ski Organisers

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Non Skier's Unsolicited Opinions

Each time there's a skiing problem, one receives a few un-solicited & usually un-informed comments from non skiers who seem to all too often make the ignorant assumption (subconscious or conscious) that organising a ski trip should be based on similar principles to those used to organise other events most of which are of a far more trivial nature, EG trip to a city restaurant. Non skiers often don't bother asking nearly enough questions before issuing their frequently un-informed opinions, & it gets tedious trying to politely explain the many things they hadn't realised or bothered to ask. It's of course quite possible for non skiers, & skiers of limited experience to have useful ideas, & for those we're grateful, but please ask _lots_ of questions before you allow an idea to grow to an opinion formed in ignorance, that could likely cause annoyance if thrust unasked on Ski Organisers.

• For True Experience:-
  • Learn to ski (any type of ski) ! - Your perceptions may change.
  • If you've tried Langlauf & weren't scared ...
  • Try down hill, its faster & more dangerous,
  • Try Ski Tour. - sometime slower than down hill, can be more dangerous though.
  • Organise some one day or more Ski Trips, (if you haven't already)
  • Organise beginners trips,
  • Organise complete club ski weekends
  • Keep doing it for 10 to 20 years for a club. Remember Ski Organisers mistakes (yours & others), logistical contingencies & accidents & problems your skiers have been caught out by in the mountains, & learn from them, & try to plan to avoid them etc.
  • Encourage other Skiers to both help out on big trips & organise trips of their own too
  • ... And now the hard bit ... ;-)
  • Sigh when non skiers dump unsolicited opinions on you about ski matters !
• A few of us are experienced Ski Organisers who have done most or all the above list.
• Non skiers & perhaps those who haven't done down hill, tour, or full weekend skiing might like to consider the following list of a few of the many problems that Ski Organisers have dealt with, & that they try to plan around &/or to avoid or deal with where possible, (events that have helped make us `experienced') :
  • Road closure from avalanche danger, skiers stranded in ski boots in bar now closing, no hotels left, no money & passports for hotels either, cars blocked by locked barrier from driving through avalanche endangered road to reach rooms containing normal shoes, clothes, passports, money & beds for the night.
  • Ski drivers & passengers separated, lost from each other, now on different mountains/valley stations, after having been separated by lack of visibility, piste closed by avalanche danger, different speed/ability etc. Lost skiers & missing drivers, cant always stick notes to wind screens 'cos the snow ice wind sleet rain & dark defeat you, & it's slow walking in ski boots, & the last bus has gone, & taxis are expensive, or no racks, or just not available
  • Injury
  • Mugging (Robbery) of party member.
  • Broken rib, broken arm reported to you at breakfast, before 1st coffee, with some fool threatening to beat you up, because you somehow didn't know, though you were skiing a different mountain with a different group yesterday, & this is the first you've heard, no one having reported it yesterday.
  • Lack of cars, or passengers for booked cars, lack of snow chains for glaciers, winter tyres, ski racks, inadequate anti-freeze, cars doors locked solid, car break downs,
  • Rush to leave car park before dead end glacier tunnel is locked for the night.
  • The odd blizzard perhaps with a group of you on a snow slope of 45 degrees, a few miles from human habitation, (skiers car groups are never sorted by ski ability, so ski groups comprise assorted passengers & drivers belonging to car groups of skiers elsewhere on same or loosely adjacent mountains.
  • Skiers stuck in dead end valleys, night closing in, hours of hard work ahead: either walking up mountain back to piste at top of mountain (to reach piste to valley) or the same but hours skiing in increasing dark through raw forest.
  • Lack of hotel rooms
  • Can't book pensions often for 1 night.
  • Can't find where booked pensions are.
  • Cant drive to hotel cos too steep narrow & icy !
  • Hotel rooms stolen by club members not booked on the trip.
  • Stuck without chains, can't get up
  • Driver stuck up top without chains, he & passengers can't get down icy road
  • Broken/stolen skis boots sticks
  • People who forget equipment money & passports to rent equipment,
  • People who tell drivers they `must' be driven back up mountain fast to return gear before shop closes, or `must' return early to Munich (no chance!)
  • Driver turned back at the border, 'cos of no passport, & passenger left with no driver.
  • Car impounded by border police, sudden extra passenger & skis to squeeze into whichever cars if any remain behind the impounded one.
  • Passengers claiming Sunday morning to have no money to pay hotel or driver's petrol money.
  Non ski organisers should realise Ski Events, particularly down hill/tour & full weekend trips are potentially much more dangerous & complex & need much more forward planning than most other simple events, & are immensely more complex, than the truly trivial booking of a meal in a Munich Restaurant, that many experience as a club `Event' & unconsciously draw parallels with when forming opinions on how club events should be done, & who has supposed rights to do whatever, etc.

Conclusion: non skiers would be wiser to ask a lot more questions before venturing un-informed unsolicited opinions on ski issues to experienced ski Organisers !

Disclaimer

• Contact Ski Organisers well in advance for weekend trips (deposits often required).
• All routes & destinations subject to snow conditions and car seats available, snow & road conditions, & Ski Organisers decisions.
• Events can be relocated, postponed or cancelled if necessary without notice, for instance due to snow or traffic conditions, lack of enough participants or transport, or indisposition of Ski Organisers.
• Check your e-mail, pay attention to announcements at the Friday. Stammtisch, and always confirm booking with the Ski Organiser beforehand.
• Don't just turn up (unless the Ski Organiser specifically advertises that is acceptable), as there may well be no space for you.
• If you must cancel, formally cancel direct with the Ski Organiser so he/she knows. No-shows who muck up our car & or hotel sharing plans are usually not welcome on subsequent trips, Ski Organisers usually mention names of no shows to fellow Ski Organisers.
• Weekend trips often require advance booking and deposits, which we drink to celebrate you not coming, if you fail to show up.
• Events are organised by volunteers. Participation is entirely at your own risk and on your own responsibility, we (organisers, fellow participants etc) disclaim All responsibility !

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Another Group: Richard Gipps' Ski Tourers group

http://www.munichskitourers.de/index.html - English speaking web & email
Thread on toy town with this 8K jpg picture

Another Group: Dead link though group still live http://www.geocities.com/parallel_ski_munich : Ken Lawler's Short Ski Beginners Group

Ken's group isn't part of our group, but a seperate Verein. There's numerous of our people there & vice versa. Many good recommendations too, & he does one open trip, no tuition or charges etc for us too. Ken's group provides equipment, beginners training, accommodation & (I think) lift tickets, for a fee.

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Another Group: Paraski

Paraski, a Yahoo group run by HanZi Field, who took Ken's beginner course in '02. HanZi goes skiing nearly every weekend and is always looking for passengers and drivers to go along. Email List . Hanzi also does barbecues in summer, & overlaps with club circles.

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Another Group: Munich International Ski Club (MISC) e.V.

One day trips, weekend, long weekend and week long trips. Email subscription request to Donna Peavey Day trip cost per person '04: Members - Eur. 35, Non-members - Eur. 45, Long trips: February 20 - 24 Kranjska Gora, Slovenia, Italy at Easter. 3 - 10 April. Madesima resort.

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Another Group: Ski Club Nymphenburg.

skiclub-nymphenburg.de German speaking. Also has a kids section.

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Another Group: Winter Sport Verein Muenchen e.V.

www.wsv-muenchen.de German speaking. Also has a kids section.

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Another Group: Ski Verband Muenchen

www.skiverband-muenchen.de German.

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Other Commercial Bus & Train Trips etc